For the uninitiated, could you give us a brief summary of Plucky’s two current offerings?
We’re a B2B2C business, in that we offer an outsourced platform for rightsholders, broadcasters and publishers to monetise their free-to-play offerings. Due to LCCP changes a couple of years ago, lots of businesses handed back their gambling licences because they would have to KYC all their free-to-play players. So what we offer is, when people want to play fantasy leagues, last man standing, predictors – when they want to play for money with their friends or publicly for money – we offer a route to a regulated environment where we KYC the player, take the money and pay out based on a verified event happening in the game.
Our two offerings are monetising fantasy sports, so free-to-play games like Telegraph Fantasy Football, and we also use the technology to offer people the ability to pull money in traditional sweepstakes. So, for example, the Grand National or Eurovision Song Contest.
You have a third offering. Could you tell us a bit about the development process behind that product?
Going back to our principles of being B2B2C and offering a regulated environment, where you can KYC and pool money among friends, family and coworkers – the same can be applied in competitive socialising environments. So, to give an example, you may go to a ten-pin bowling alley with friends, or you may go to a driving range with friends and family or you may go to a darts bar. We are partnered with a competitive socialising cricket bar and they offer people the chance to go into cricket nets.
Lots of people are playing for money, but if no one’s got any cash, you’re sending your money to your friend via bank details and then getting them to pay the winner. So the new offering essentially will be the ability to Plucky your game, to turn one of your games into a money game and be able to pay for money. Because we have developed the technology alongside the bar and the technology that’s fizzing the cricket ball out as you’re scoring points, it will pay based on what happens in that game. It’s a full integration between the bar and the sport technology. It’s about four different technical partners in that offering. It’s been quite a challenge and I think, once we’ve done it and proven it, hopefully you’ll see Plucky being applied to lots of different competitive socialising situations.
When you’ve created your Plucky account, you have a Plucky wallet. You won’t need to KYC or create an account every time, so you’ll be able to go from one venue to another and say “Let’s use our Plucky wallets to turn this into a money game.”
Free-to-play games have been shown to be an effective method for generating traffic. Over the years, have you spotted any trends among free-to-play games and the people that play them?
One of the major reasons Plucky is in its position and is seeing success with partners is, when you sign up for fantasy games, apart from the very hardcore players, what you see is a trend in engagement as the season or game progresses. For example, one of the biggest fantasy games in the world is Fantasy Premier League. There are around 13 million players. You look at the engagement curves they release and on the first day or week leading up to the season, there’s extremely high engagement. Then, as you either do well or not, it drops off to a low base by the end. To keep that engagement and change that trend, we offer weekly, monthly pools between friends. But what we’re trying to provide as well is pay-outs to people that haven’t necessarily got the most points that week. It might be they got the worst score and they win some money for that, creating wooden spoon-type prizes.
We try and keep everybody engaged regardless of their performance in the game.
In August, you partnered with Genius Sports, and The Telegraph and its paid fantasy football league. With just how big a brand The Telegraph is, what was it like to collaborate with it ona project like that?
With any startup like us dealing with a behemoth like that, you’re always going to get very long lead time on legals and things getting signed off, and my experience is no different. You’ve got to prove yourself, your offering, your credibility, your stability as a business. The experience has been very positive with both of them. But, these things take time. If you’re a startup, you need to make sure you’ve got the time to get these things through. They don’t happen overnight. The fact that Plucky is a product they see the need for – it’s been a relatively straightforward and easy process. But I would say, when partnering with huge firms, you should always be prepared for them taking a long time.
How does bringing revenue to a free-to-play game work in the UK? What regulations do you need to navigate?
Plucky has a UK pool betting licence. We’re not a fixed-odds player; the thing that needs to be fundamentally understood is that we’re creating a walled-off, regulated environment where the player can transition from a free-to-play platform into a regulated space where they are KYCed. We take the money, sit on it, then send that player back to a non-regulated space. That’s the navigation that needs to take place. That’s what the publishers, broadcasters and rightsholders are outsourcing to Plucky. They don’t want to own or deal with the administration of a licence. They would like to send their players to a regulated space and for them to then return.
It’s like in a live environment. You’re in an unregulated space when you’re stood in a bar having a drink. I’ve had people say “there’s no way you’re going to be able to get this through regulation.” But our relationship with that customer is on their phone. They’re creating a Plucky Wallet and they’re doing that in a regulated environment.
Looking at your pooled betting offer, who is your target demographic? What types of players are interested in this type of product?
Somebody that wants to bring more excitement to viewing sport or viewing an event like the Eurovision Song Contest or their fantasy playing or competitive socialising. There’s a specific type of customer we are interested in, and we call them initiators or chairmen. A lot of our players will share the fact they want to play for money with their friends via WhatsApp. And in anything like that, you need an initiator. The person that sets the game up, says “How much are we playing for? What are the rules?”
What makes someone an initiator compared to other people? How do you target them through marketing or advertising? Because it’s not a demographic of age or gender. It’s something different.
We see our statistics in our CRM, and we’re seeing as many old, young, female, male. When it’s Eurovision Song Contest or playing darts in a bar, you probably see a wider demographic than our fixed odds. They’re probably seeing the classic 18-25 male. Plucky has a really wide demographic. We like that; it’s a softer brand; it’s got a smiley face and it’s for everyone. It’s not just for blokes who are 20 years of age.
I think we’re too early to know how we spot initiators. At the moment, we’re just partnering with The Telegraph and their whole audience is being told about it. Then we’re seeing people signing up. I don’t think we’re as far along the line yet to know ‘these are the characteristics of an initiator.’
It would be interesting when that data comes through to get an understanding of that kind of person, because when people are looking at demographics, it’s gender, age, etc. Whereas this is a personality type.
You’ve given me an idea there. I might need to do a research project on the characteristics of an initiator!
As it is December, we’re reflecting on the year and looking ahead. For you, what do you feel has been the most impactful trend on the sports betting market this year?
One big competition this year has been the Euro Championships for us. You’re definitely seeing bet builders, people designing their own bets and sharing those with friends, as being cemented in the mainstream. You used to just bet on what you were offered.We’re now designing our own bets and sharing things with people; they want to create their own stories, as it were. I think Plucky lends itself to that, in that this is about initiating a game with your friends.
It’s a social element as well, being able to share a passion. Many sportsbooks have been adding social elements to their platforms...
It’s an open question at the moment, but I wonder whether people will also shift to preferring to play for money directly with friends, where you lose, but at least your friend got the money – not a bookie. I don’t know if that’s proven, but it’s an interesting behavioural thing; as people start to play more directly with each other on a social level, whether they prefer that versus a bookmaker.
I wonder whether people will shift to preferring to play for money directly with friends, where you lose, but at least your friend got the money – not a bookie
That’s another study for you! What do you think was the biggest lesson you’ve learned as a businessFounder in 2024?
In the gambling sector – and this is my first business in the sector – it’s patience. Being a new entrant, you have to have patience around getting started with banks, getting started with payment service providers, KYC providers, partners too. There is, unfortunately, a lot of bad feelings around gambling, and you’re put together with every type of gambling business. Plucky, compared to an online casino, we think is more friendly, low stakes, low risk, social. But, when you’re going to get a bank account, you are put in the same box because you have a gambling licence.
We’ve had to be incredibly patient. We’ve had to bide our time, make sure we’ve been funded to give us the longest runway to get those things done. Getting a bank account as a new gambling entrant is, to this day extremely difficult - for the right reasons.
