In the 1980s, Great Britain looked vastly different to how it does now. Punk was in, Princess Diana’s wedding was the height of conversation and everyone was watching the skies as they eagerly anticipated the next rocket destined for space. It was a decade defined by societal change, and Andrea McGeachin felt this too. “I studied politics because I had a real aspiration in the early 1980s that this was something I could do.” However, she first joined Sainsbury’s as a graduate. “I’m not a corporate person, that’s for sure,” she tells Gambling Insider with a soft laugh. “But I do have a passion for the working world because my parents had their own business; a greengrocer and a florist.”
RETAIL IS DETAIL
McGeachin speaks fondly about her first job, especially as she takes us through the different things she was taught and even how something as specific as shop floor doors can be applied to any industry. “We called them buffer doors,” she says. “One of the things you’re taught in retail is what’s going on out the back is very different than what you see on the shop floor. There’s even a different language spoken behind the buffer doors.” This dichotomy between the business and the people working within it caught McGeachin’s attention early on. Even when she was sent all around the world to learn from other stores, it was always the connections she made with others that resonated the most with her.
“We were bringing back a new product, the delicatessen, but I learnt far more than that. The experience was also about understanding how to listen to other people before you make your own decisions and how to gather information,” she explains. “The passion is, and always will be, about the people and how they work.” It wasn’t long before McGeachin moved on from Sainsbury’s. She’d gained experience working for the retail giant before she made a rather drastic career change and moved to ExxonMobil, the oil and gas corporation. “I’m a retailer that works in other industries now, but I’ll always say that,” she laughs. And there’s some truth to this.
Whether she was the Retail Shops and Marketing Advisor at Exxon, the Retail Manager at Cable & Wireless Communications, the Sales Director at Scansoft or the Sales and Operations Director at Pixology PLC, there was always one constant – McGeachin understood what it took to take a product and win the trust of the public and clients alike. “Retail is detail!” She says excitedly, “At least, that used to be a phrase which was around in the eighties, but it’s true. You’ve got to think about the customer. You’ve got to think about all of your colleagues, and you have to know how to bring those two sides together.” Success in retail came easily to McGeachin, but it was when she moved to Ukash in 2007 that she wondered whether this was an industry she truly belonged in. “For the first three months, I would get off my train at London Bridge and I was petrified.” This was during the ecommerce boom of the late 2000s. Earlier that year, PayPal had announced a partnership with MasterCard and more people were understanding that cash was no longer the only way you could pay for things. “Don’t forget, this is the payment side, not just the gambling side, and you’re walking through and trying to understand in your head all of these new concepts and ideas.” McGeachin leans back in her chair and shakes her head as she remembers these early days. “I did not fully understand this world. “I soon learned that in the payments industry, you’ve got some people who genuinely get it. Those that really get it are great to be around,” she pauses, before continuing.
“And then you’ve got some people who are in the business, but they don’t really get it. If you don’t get it, you use all the buzzwords. You just go through life, you go through the motions, but you’re not really thinking or understanding what’s happening.” Thankfully, McGeachin was surrounded by a team who were all too eager to welcome her and teach her the ropes of this evolving world. To this, she credits Martin Prout, one of the most beloved people in the payments industry. They met at Ukash, and would go on to work together in a few different companies, including Neosurf. “He was one of a number of people I came across, but he was wonderful. Sadly, he passed away three years ago, way before his time. He was very different. Early on, he took me into a particular room for two days and told me how to split the bullsh*t from reality and how it works. I’ve never forgotten that. We have the Martin Prout Breakthrough Award at our Christmas party. We have this in memory of somebody like that.”
DON’T BE AFRAID OF A LITTLE GEN Z
McGeachin understood the human element of business, which is something she preaches even from her position as CEO. “I am addicted to my work. I’m guilty of doing work when I don’t need to, but it’s because I love what I do,” she admits. “One of my core strengths is that when something hits the fan or something urgent happens, it’s all about having a calmness and understanding of how to organise that and not let it upset something else that’s going on. I personally know that this is one of my core skills, because that’s what people have always told me in my career. But it’s about everybody else.”
So, her team knows they can rely on McGeachin, but does McGeachin know she can rely on them in return? “Still, to this day, if I’m going to ask somebody to do something new, I’ll want to know how it works first. I don’t have the same skill sets as everybody,” she breaks the idea down for us. “Our decision science team is a great example of this. I love using the data that comes out, but I’m not somebody who can go and put all of that data together like they can. So I sit with my decision science team at least once a week to talk about where we’re going and what we’ve got to work with. “The principle of people is the cool thing. Whether that’s a young 17-year-old who’s doing a till job, or a very Senior Director who’s been in the company for 30 years, you can learn from both of those people equally.”
Once again, McGeachin finds herself drawn to the intricacies of the power of individuals, rather than seeing business as ‘just a company.’ “I learned that I have a lot of Gen Z in our business, and they’re just phenomenal. I’ve seen so many businesses trying to figure out how to work with Gen Z, just because of how they go about things differently. But as I said, you’re learning new things from new people every day and to not learn from those people is limiting yourself in your perspective.” It hasn’t always been smooth sailing, though, and it’s not always easy to understand other points of view. As an accomplished businesswoman, McGeachin knows the value of this. She explains how there “was something that was a bit of an incident” with one of the Gen Z employees.
You've got to be ready. Being a CEO is a 365-day-a-year, 24/7 thing because you're going to get called on. But you also have to trust and believe, mentor and grow your leaders and your teams
Her immediate reaction was to say something along the lines of, “Oh God, really? Well, you know, in my day, I had to…”, but she knew this was counterproductive. She knew it was her responsibility as CEO to understand her employees so, instead, she sat down and worked at learning their perspective on the matter. “It made sense to me and then I realised they just had a totally different way of thinking about it. From a people and a learning perspective, that whole concept is fantastic.” Perhaps this generational shift can be best comprehended if we take a look inside the Neosurf office itself. On one of the walls, Neosurf has a massive mural filled with art, photographs and anything else that’s sentimental to the employees there. “There are people’s children, dogs, grandparents, all the people that are really important to them”, McGeachin explains as she points out all of the different faces and pets on the wall to us. “There is a computer chip up there for a young person – they built their own computer, so this graphics card chip or something or other was important. We said: Okay, if that’s important to you, then we’ll put that up.” It may seem like a strange thing to older generations, but this level of easy acceptance is completely natural to McGeachin. “Yeah, I embrace my Gen Z people here. They’re amazing. And people are like, ‘Really?’”
COME WITH ME, AND YOU’LL SEE…
We asked McGeachin how she manages to stay healthy while being a self-admitted overworker. A CEO, whether in this industry or any other, will know how draining this position can be. “I swim a kilometre every day. It is one of the best things in the world. It is for me; it’s my thing. Just jumping in the water, I think of nothing but breathing and swimming for 35 minutes every day. Preferably in the morning and preferably in outside waters.” She shakes her head and laughs as the CEO nature of always pushing further and outdoing yourself tries to bubble up, but she manages to catch it. “Some people swim a mile. That’s lovely. But I’m not going to swim a mile every day. I haven’t got time. I’m happy with my kilometre. It will do.” As for how she’s managed to get to this headspace, it’s been an uphill battle. “I’ve recently taken up life coaching, and that’s really helping me be a little bit more measured, because you’ve got to be dedicated. You’ve got to be ready. Being a CEO is a 365-day-a-year, 24/7 thing because you’re going to get called on.” She explains. “But you also have to trust and believe, mentor and grow your leaders and your teams – that’s how you balance it. You’re not in control of everything. You are the leadership. It’s about leading and it’s about helping. The rest of your team and your leaders will grow alongside you.” She nods, taking on a more solemn expression for just a moment. “If you don’t do that, then you will burn out. Don’t forget your family. Don’t forget where you come from. Take some time for yourself and the old adage is make sure you get your night’s sleep if you can, and I do.
Even if you haven’t done what you’ve wanted to do today, you know you’ve got tomorrow to achieve it and you’ll sleep better.” It doesn’t take long before she’s once again animatedly talking about the interests she’s maintained outside of work. McGeachin has a passion for music, and that’s something that’s immediately evident. She’s seen David Bowie nine times, Adele four times, and even Echo and the Bunnymen before they were famous. As is any 1970s kid’s dream, she’s also very proud of the fact she’s seen Queen, The Cure and Gary Newman live – although understandably, not all at once. “Musicals aren’t my normal genre,” she claims, “but if I had to have a theme song, it would probably be ‘Pure Imagination’ from Charlie and The Chocolate Factory.” McGeachin is quick to emphasise the Gene Wilder one, specifically. “It’s a song about the power of creativity and it talks about how kids and adults alike have to dream, pretend, play, be silly, think abstractly and make up and imagine the possibilities that do not yet exist. The reason I like that from a work point of view is that it’s a constantly changing world, and that’s our world. We’re a payments company that serves the gambling industry, and several other industries, and that’s what it’s like every single day.
“And so, the word ‘imagine’ makes us all feel quite cosy at the moment in a hectic world.” The Willy Wonka of the payments world, we interject? “Well, I don’t know whether I’d call myself that!” she chuckles. “If you quote that, it will make some people really scream and laugh because we’ve a very particular nuance in the payments world for sure. I mean, our statement is ‘Imagine a payments company that does things differently…’ and where we’re coming from.”
CHECKING IN AND CASHING OUT
Running a company smoothly from the inside is one thing, and McGeachin understands that working with others is another kettle of fish entirely. In the beginning, it wasn’t easy to sell alternative payment methods to casinos, thanks in part to the strict AML compliance needed in this area. “There was Neosurf, Paysafecard and a couple of other smaller players, and we all had the same issue of what we were trying to do and explain that,” she says. “We were having to explain what an alternative payment method was to the gambling industry.” They managed to pull it off, though, thanks to the patience, resilience and knowledge of McGeachin and her team. “I also really got to the point where I understood that you’ve got to be in everybody’s path to pull it off. We had to get to the point where we believe we are part of that sector and not just a payments company that serves the sector. Everyone has different views, insights and outcome requirements so pulling all of that together really struck me. You’re either in it or you’re not.”
The UK is just one of the countries pushing for advanced technology when it comes to contactless payments, but with so many years of payment provider experience, McGeachin knows this won’t always be for everyone. “Yes, there’s a lot of cash in circulation,” she nods and leans forward once again as her tone gets serious. “You want to empower the consumer to use cash, if that’s what they want to do. Stop saying, ‘Oh, we don’t need cash’, because you’ll feed into a negative area that will impact us all. The black market is a really big thing. We can still mitigate the risks for the gambling industry.” McGeachin has found in her experience that many regulators and authorities can forget about prepaid cards or other alternative options. “It’s our role in this position to go and engage with them. Not all regulators make such mistakes. We have a collective responsibility in the gambling industry to help and share knowledge.
Martin Prout was one of a number of people I came across, but he was wonderful. Sadly, he passed away three years ago, way before his time. He was very different
But, in some regulated areas, collaboration and listening are not great. That comes down to trust and who is perceived to know best.” There are a few examples that have stuck with McGeachin over the years as she’s tried to navigate this emerging sector. The first was while listening to a Radio 4 programme. For readers outside the UK, this is a talk show aimed at an older, more mature crowd, and often focuses on news, current affairs and cultural programming. McGeachin remembers vividly how someone on a programme said that gambling operators should only accept the main banks and none of these ‘challengers.’ She remembers thinking, “Goodness, how shortsighted is that?” Another time, she was dealing with a Money Laundering Reporting Officer (MLRO) who was keen to work with them, but admitted casually that, “I’ll take you and I’ll take Paysafecard, et cetera, and I’ll decide how much you can transact later on.” When pressed by McGeachin on what this would be based on, he said, “I don’t know, by how I feel. What I think is going on in the industry at the time.” It is safe to say this relationship did not work out. McGeachin is quick to defend the industry as a whole, however.
“Rather than judge them, let’s go and see what we can do about it. We can all do this without being pretentious and acting like we know more than anyone else. You’ve got to really work at it and a payments company doing that in this industry is novel. It is novel – I wish it wasn’t. I wish we would all do it, but I’ll keep banging on about that while doing our action.” As for this ‘action’, McGeachin is no stranger to speaking up, both literally and metaphorically. “I am standing on a pedestal on a constant basis and wanting other payment companies to not just tick a box, to not just say they support the industry but actually do something responsible. Responsible gambling starts with a deposit. If you wish to be part of this ecosystem, then step up and take a role. Don’t just sit on a panel and say, ‘My opinion is…’. Actually do something. I am a payment company that serves the gambling market, therefore, I am part of the gambling market. So, I will sit in front of a gambling regulator, as well as a payments regulator, and sort this out. There are some very, very big payments companies and big brands that truly say: ‘That’s not my responsibility.’” In this industry, every compliance person in every country may have at one point or other complained that they have the most difficult task, the most complicated ecosystem, and the most inane laws to deal with. “Actually, everybody has a difficult task. Everybody.” McGeachin affirms.
“There’s a principle behind understanding what we wanted to do and how to use our skills, science and data to make it happen. But we did it and, earlier this year, we launched our Compliance Handshake.” This product is designed to be a data-sharing service that supports compliance, responsible gaming, and analytical efforts. “The Compliance Handshake is designed to help an operator use our payment route and not feel scared. A compliance person will never tell you they’re scared,” she nods. “But if we don’t really work on sustainability, the growth of the black market in these regulated markets is just going to get worse.”
NEOSURFING THE WAVES OF SUCCESS
“Now that I’m CEO of the company, we’re taking it up a level. We’re going for an international push.” McGeachin’s face lights up as she says this. “We’re going from just being in the UK and Europe, to now being across Australia, New Zealand and Canada. We’ve spent a good deal of time this year preparing for our New Year launch.” As for what that is, it’s no secret that Neosurf has had its eye on North America for some time. “When I was with Ukash, there was a saying that ‘if it gets scary, get out’, but that was during a time when the infrastructure didn’t exist. Now, we take our time and we get it right. At Neosurf, we have our own mantra: ‘If we’re going in, we’re gonna stay.’”
This isn’t how everyone has approached the US in the past. “There are some of our competitors who just walk out and leave operators standing, and that’s not collaborative or being part of the ecosystem at all.” She goes on to describe that it has been necessary to leave jurisdictions in the past, but that this was part of a wider industry decision, rather than as a singular business. “You need to work well and be sustainable,” she clarifies. “It’s happened in particular countries where regulations change and large parts of the industry are no longer legal. So as a collective decision, we all left together. It happens. There’s now a black market there, but there you go. I wish it was different. But like I said, it needs to be a community effort.
“I do believe in having trusted people in territories or regions to support us, even here in Europe, because you need people who understand it.” She says firmly. “And so 2025 is switching on the countries that we’ve done all the leg work for this year. We’ve just gone live in Switzerland and Mexico, then the US will be in the New Year. We’re hoping to have Argentina, Brazil, the Philippines, Japan and India either in Q1 or following just afterwards.” McGeachin laughs, “Dear God, that’s what we’re doing!” As for any sneak peeks into what she’s got planned this year... “I can’t say what it is,” she admits coyly. “But in early Q1, we will be announcing something that’s very specific for the gambling market with our wallet, and it’s based on the research that we’ve done. We have announced it carefully, but not necessarily publicly. The operators have seen it, if they’ve been in meetings with us, but it will be something that is going to formally address that research and hits some specifics, it’s not a generic position.” We tried to press further, but McGeachin simply chuckles and shakes her head again. “Let’s just say we’ve talked to an awful lot of players, so that it’s qualitative as well as quantitative.” Whatever unfolds, McGeachin will no doubt embrace any new ventures with her usual charm.